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- -Captions by VITAC--
www.vitac.com

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CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY
DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS

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Hummel: I DON'T KNOW.

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I JUST DON'T THINK THE WAY
OTHER PEOPLE DO.

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♪♪

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♪♪

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♪♪

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BACK IN THE BEGINNING,
EVERYTHING WAS FINE.

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YOU KNOW, WHEN ME AND HER FIRST
STARTED GOING OUT,

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BEFORE WE EVEN GOT MARRIED.

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AND EVERYTHING JUST STARTED
GOING DOWNHILL FROM THERE.

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♪♪

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SHE WAS SO BRIGHT
AND CURIOUS AND...

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ABSORB EVERYTHING YOU TELL HER
AND ALWAYS ASKING QUESTIONS.

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I'D BE SITTING ON THE BACK PORCH
SMOKING A CIGARETTE,

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AND SHE'D HAD ME TELLING HER
ABOUT INSECTS

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AND STUFF THAT'S OUT IN
THE WOODS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

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♪♪

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♪♪

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THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME
THOUGHTS LIKE THAT

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EVER STARTED
CREEPING IN MY MIND,

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AND THEN IT JUST KEPT BUILDING
AND BUILDING

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UNTIL FINALLY IT JUST,
YOU KNOW, ERUPTED LIKE THAT.

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YOU KNOW, NO OTHER TIME
IN MY LIFE

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HAD I EVER THOUGHT ABOUT KILLING
ANYBODY OR EVEN HURTING ANYBODY.

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Morgan: HAVING VIOLENT THOUGHTS
IS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL FOR US

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AS HUMAN BEINGS.

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SOME PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT --

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THEY GO, "OH, MY GOD,
I HAD THIS THOUGHT.

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IT MAKES ME A BAD PERSON."

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NO, IT DOESN'T.

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IT ISN'T THOUGHTS.

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IT'S WHAT WE DO
WITH THOSE THOUGHTS.

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FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T
PROCESS EMOTIONS NORMALLY,

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THEN THOUGHTS ARE FASCINATING

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AND THEY COME BACK
AROUND AND AROUND.

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Termini: OFTEN PSYCHOPATHS
WON'T TELL PEOPLE

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ABOUT THE THOUGHTS
THEY'RE HAVING

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OR THE URGES THEY'RE HAVING

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SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT
ANYBODY TO STOP THEM.

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BUT IT'S GENERALLY NOT OUT
OF A SENSE OF SHAME

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OF THOSE THOUGHTS.

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♪♪

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[ CRICKETS CHIRPING ]

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♪♪

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Hummel: YOU KNOW, I LEFT
PRETENDING TO GO TO WORK,

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EVEN THOUGH
I WAS OFF THAT NIGHT.

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AND THEN RETURNED BACK HOME
WHEN THEY WAS ASLEEP.

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I WAS STANDING THERE
IN THE BEDROOM.

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I WAS CONTEMPLATING ON MY HEAD,
GOING THROUGH IT.

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AFTER THAT IT WAS JUST...
YOU KNOW, A BLUR, BASICALLY.

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I DON'T KNOW
IF IT WAS 30 MINUTES.

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SOMETIMES IN THOSE MOMENTS,
TIME STANDS STILL.

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IF 30 MINUTES
WAS ACTUALLY 30 SECONDS,

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HE COULD HAVE BEEN THINKING
A VARIETY OF THINGS,

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SPECULATING, OF COURSE.

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"WILL I GET CAUGHT?
HOW WILL I COVER MY TRACKS?"

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Berrill: I DON'T THINK MORALITY
WAS THE OVERRIDING ISSUE.

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THE ISSUE REALLY PROBABLY WAS,
"COULD I DO IT?

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AND IF I DID IT, YOU KNOW,
WOULD I BE CAUGHT?"

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Producer: WHAT HAPPENED?

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I MEAN, I CAN
DISTINCTLY REMEMBER,

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BUT I REALLY DON'T WANT TO.

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I MEAN --

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YEAH, JUST, YOU KNOW,
IMMEDIATELY START THINKING

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ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE,
LIKE A FAVORITE MOVIE OR SONG

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OR TAKE OUT A BOOK
AND START READING.

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IT'S JUST TOO HARD.

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I DON'T WANT TO REALLY THINK
ABOUT IT.

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I-I DON'T WANT
TO REMEMBER THEM THAT WAY.

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♪♪

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I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED LIKE
A PRETTY REALISTIC DESCRIPTION

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FOR PEOPLE WHO SUFFER
FROM THIS OBSESSIONAL LOOP.

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AND IT'S A DISTRACTION TASK

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THAT TRIES TO KEEP THE IDEA
AT BAY

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RATHER THAN DEALING WITH IT.

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IT'S NOT EMPATHY.

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IT'S NOT REMORSE
OVER WHAT HE DID.

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HE'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING,

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"I DON'T LIKE THINKING
ABOUT THAT."

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♪♪

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Hummel: I HATE WHAT I DID.

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EVERYBODY SHOULD HATE
WHAT I DID,

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BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE
TO ACTUALLY HATE ME FOREVER.

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♪♪

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Hummel: PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE
TO UNDERSTAND.

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SOMETIMES THERE'S NOT
AN EXPLANATION.

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SOMETIMES THINGS JUST HAPPEN.

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THERE'S NO RHYME
OR REASON TO IT.

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♪♪

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♪♪

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♪♪

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THESE ARE SOME
OF THE TEXT MESSAGES

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BETWEEN JOHN HUMMEL
AND HIS GIRLFRIEND.

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"JOHN, YOU'RE MARRIED
AND I'M NOT A HOME WRECKER."

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HE REPLIES, "I KNOW AND I LOVE
THAT YOU'RE MY FRIEND

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AND THAT YOU WILL NOT
LET ME HURT HER.

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THAT'S THE LAST THING
I WANT TO DO. SO THANK YOU."

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THIS IS QUITE MANIPULATIVE BY
SAYING, YOU KNOW,

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APPRECIATING HOW MUCH SHE
DOESN'T WANT TO WRECK THE HOME

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WHEN IN FACT HE'S PLANNING
TO PURSUE

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WRECKING THE HOME
IN THE ULTIMATE WAY.

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♪♪

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Raghavan: "HOW MANY YEARS
DID IT TAKE YOU

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TO FIGURE OUT
ALL THE RIGHT THINGS TO SAY?"

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"I'M JUST SAYING
WHAT I'M THINKING AND FEELING."

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SHE THINKS HE'S BEING
MANIPULATIVE TO GET SEX,

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AND SHE'S BEING MISTRUSTFUL,

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LIKE, "WHY IS HE BEING
SO FLATTERING AND SO INTENSE?"

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Tussey: IT'S POSSIBLE
SHE COULD BE PICKING UP

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ON HIS ATTEMPT
TO BE CUNNING AND MANIPULATIVE

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OR SUPERFICIALLY CHARMING.

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YES, THAT'S DEFINITELY
A PSYCHOPATHIC TRAIT.

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♪♪

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AND HERE IS HER RESPONSE.

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"YOU DO NOT HAVE SYMPATHY
FOR YOUR WIFE

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WHILE SHE WAS
CARRYING YOUR CHILD."

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Raghavan: SHE'S PICKING UP
THAT HE'S NOT BEING SENSITIVE

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OR REMORSEFUL OR CONSIDERATE,

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THAT HIS WIFE IS PREGNANT
AND HE SIMPLY DOESN'T CARE.

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SO HE SENT THIS TEXT
ON THE MORNING OF THE MURDERS.

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AND HE SAYS,
"I HAD A NICE DREAM.

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WE WERE MAKING COOKIES
TOGETHER."

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HE'S SORT OF STARTING TO GO INTO
THE PHASE OF DOMESTICITY

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AFTER, YOU KNOW, A MONTH
OF OBSESSIVE SEX TEXTS.

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SHE CONSUMES HIM.

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SHE CONSUMES HIS REALITY,
HIS DREAM LIFE, HIS FUTURE PLAN,

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ANYTHING, ANYTHING
BUT HIS CURRENT LIFE

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THAT FEELS DREARY
AND A DEAD END.

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IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND
TO LEAVE.

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THERE WAS NO THOUGHT PROCESS,
IT WAS JUST...

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KIND OF LIKE ANIMAL INSTINCT.

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IT WAS JUST,
"TAKE THEM ALL OUT."

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I'VE ALWAYS KEPT THINGS
TO MYSELF, I DON'T...

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I DON'T SHARE MY FEELINGS
AND EMOTIONS WELL.

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BECAUSE IF I HAD,
THEY'D STILL BE ALIVE,

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I BELIEVE.

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I MEAN, IF I COULD GO BACK
IN TIME AGAIN

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AND STOP MYSELF FROM DOING
WHAT I DID,

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EVEN IF IT MEANT KILLING MYSELF
JUST SO THEY WOULD LIVE,

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I WOULD DO IT.

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♪♪

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♪♪

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YOU CAN'T PUT THE FEELINGS
THAT YOU'RE FEELING

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INTO WORDS EITHER.

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I DON'T KNOW WHAT WENT
THROUGH HIS MIND.

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Woman: HE'LL GET WHAT'S COMING
TO HIM, I'M SURE.

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AND I HOPE
IT'S TO THE FULL EXTENT.

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AND WITH THE CONVERSATION
WE HAVE WITH HIS FAMILY,

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THEY FEEL THE SAME WAY.

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♪♪

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I HAVE TWO POEMS THAT I WROTE
THAT I PLAN ON SAYING.

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THEY'RE MY FINAL...

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UH, MY LAST WORDS OR WHATEVER.

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ONE I CALLED "THE CEMENT BOX."

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AS I SIT IN THIS CEMENT BOX,
I GET LOST AMONGST MY THOUGHTS.

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I THINK ABOUT THE TIMES
I'VE HAD

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ALL THE GOOD, EVEN THE BAD.

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I'M NOT SAD AND I'LL NOT CRY.

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I'LL BE WITH JESUS WHEN I DIE.

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I ENJOYED SPENDING TIME
WITH HER,

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PLAYING WITH HER, WATCHING TV,

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ESPECIALLY WATCHING CARTOONS
I WATCHED AS A KID,

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LIKE "THE SMURFS"
OR "ALVIN AND THE CHIPMUNKS"

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AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

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TO HAVE HER ENJOY
WHAT I ENJOYED AS A CHILD

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REALLY MEANT A LOT TO ME.

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PSYCHOPATHS OFTEN HAVE
A CALLOUS LACK OF REGARD

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FOR HUMANITY,
REGARDLESS OF THE AGE RANGE.

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SOME INDIVIDUALS WILL SAY,

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"WE'LL ACTUALLY DRAW LIMITS,
THOUGH,

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AND SAY NO CHILDREN,"
BUT CERTAINLY FOR OTHERS,

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THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE
A DISTINCTION.

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♪♪

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♪♪

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MR. HUMMEL SAYS,
"I FEEL A STRONG BOND WITH YOU

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THAT I HAVE NEVER HAD
WITH ANYONE ELSE."

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TO WHICH SHE REPLIED,
"NOT EVEN WITH YOUR WIFE?"

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AND HE SAID NO.

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AND SHE SAID,
"THEN WHY DID YOU MARRY HER?"

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AND HIS RESPONSE WAS,

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"I TRULY CANNOT THINK
OF A REASON EXCEPT FOR MY KID."

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00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:31,609
Raghavan: I THINK THE WHOLE
FAMILY UNIT FELT LIKE THE TRAP.

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HE HARBORED RESENTMENT
AGAINST THE WHOLE UNIT

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00:14:34,569 --> 00:14:36,005
AND THAT WOULD JUST,

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00:14:36,136 --> 00:14:38,399
YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY GENERALIZE
TO THE DAUGHTER.

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♪♪

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00:14:47,887 --> 00:14:51,325
♪♪

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00:14:51,455 --> 00:14:53,501
I WAS OUT OF WORK FOR FOUR YEARS
BECAUSE OF MY BACK

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00:14:53,631 --> 00:14:54,981
AND COULDN'T DO NOTHING,

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COULDN'T DO NOTHING
AROUND THE HOUSE.

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00:14:57,026 --> 00:14:59,115
I HAVE A FATHER-IN-LAW
WHO FEELS

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00:14:59,246 --> 00:15:03,250
THAT I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO MORE
WHEN I CAN'T.

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00:15:03,380 --> 00:15:04,904
AND I TRY TO EXPLAIN THEM,

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00:15:05,034 --> 00:15:07,602
"YOU KNOW, I DO WHAT I CAN DO
WHEN I CAN DO IT."

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THEN YOU GET TO THE FEELING
TO WHERE, YOU KNOW,

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EVERYTHING IS MY FAULT.

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00:15:15,088 --> 00:15:16,828
AN ASTEROID COULD
STRIKE THE EARTH,

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00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:18,134
AND SOMEHOW THAT'S MY FAULT.

200
00:15:21,398 --> 00:15:23,574
Morgan: I THINK HE DOES SEE
HIMSELF AS A VICTIM.

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THERE'S ALSO THAT MOMENT WHEN
HE TALKS ABOUT THE ASTEROID.

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DO YOU SEE THE LOOK ON HIS FACE?

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00:15:27,491 --> 00:15:31,843
YOU CAN SEE THE ANGER
RIGHT THERE.

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00:15:31,974 --> 00:15:34,063
Raghavan: IT FEELS LIKE
AS HE STARTS TO BROOD,

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HE TAKES ON MORE
AND MORE QUALITIES

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00:15:36,370 --> 00:15:39,329
THAT WE WOULD SEE IN SOMEONE
WHO IS PSYCHOPATHIC.

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00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:42,463
HIS ATTENTION IS NARROWING
AND NARROWING

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AND FOCUSING ON HIM
AND HIS PAIN AND HIS RAGE

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00:15:46,293 --> 00:15:48,991
AND THEN STARTING TO BLAME
THE WIFE AND THE DAD

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00:15:49,122 --> 00:15:52,560
FROM KEEPING HIM FROM
WHAT HE SEES AS THE SOLUTION.

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00:15:52,690 --> 00:15:54,910
THE SOLUTION, OF COURSE,
IN HIS HEAD

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00:15:55,041 --> 00:15:56,651
IS A MAGICAL SOLUTION.

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00:15:56,781 --> 00:15:58,958
HOW IS IT MAGICAL?

214
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HIS WIFE WILL GO AWAY.
HIS BABY WILL GO AWAY.

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HIS FATHER WILL GO AWAY.
THE HOUSE WILL GO AWAY.

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00:16:04,398 --> 00:16:06,704
EVERYTHING WILL BE WIPED CLEAN.

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00:16:06,835 --> 00:16:09,664
AND HE'LL START OVER
IN THIS FANTASY RELATIONSHIP

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00:16:09,794 --> 00:16:11,274
WHERE HE'LL FEEL LIKE
A MAN AGAIN

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00:16:11,405 --> 00:16:13,407
AND EVERYTHING WILL BE PERFECT.

220
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♪♪

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00:16:19,369 --> 00:16:25,071
♪♪

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WHEN I DO SOMETHING RIGHT,
NO ONE REMEMBERS.

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WHEN I DO SOMETHING WRONG,
NO ONE FORGETS.

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♪♪

225
00:16:48,398 --> 00:16:49,834
Hummel: I DON'T FEAR DEATH.

226
00:16:49,965 --> 00:16:53,751
I'M NOT LOOKING FORWARD
TO IT EITHER.

227
00:16:53,882 --> 00:16:56,363
I KILLED MY WIFE, JOY.

228
00:16:56,493 --> 00:16:59,844
I KILLED HER FATHER NEXT, EDDIE.

229
00:16:59,975 --> 00:17:02,064
THEN I KILLED JODI.

230
00:17:05,328 --> 00:17:07,287
WELL, IT'S LIKE --
IT WAS LIKE, UH...

231
00:17:09,854 --> 00:17:11,378
...I DON'T KNOW.

232
00:17:11,508 --> 00:17:15,686
KIND OF LIKE
ALMOST LIKE WATCHING A MOVIE,

233
00:17:15,817 --> 00:17:19,560
THROUGH, LIKE, A FIRST-PERSON
POINT OF VIEW.

234
00:17:19,690 --> 00:17:21,518
WELL, SEE, AT THE TIME
I COMMITTED THE CRIMES,

235
00:17:21,649 --> 00:17:25,174
I WAS AN ATHEIST.

236
00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:29,483
IT WAS LIKE I WAS CONTEMPLATING
TO KILL MY FAMILY,

237
00:17:29,613 --> 00:17:32,138
AND THEN THE LAST --
LIKE THE LAST THOUGHT WAS,

238
00:17:32,268 --> 00:17:35,880
"YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD."

239
00:17:36,011 --> 00:17:38,796
Tussey: I THINK HE IS USING
THE FACT THAT HE WAS AN ATHEIST

240
00:17:38,927 --> 00:17:42,757
AS, YOU KNOW,
A WAY TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY.

241
00:17:42,887 --> 00:17:45,281
ONE OF THE CHARACTERISTICS
WE SEE SOMETIMES IN PSYCHOPATHS

242
00:17:45,412 --> 00:17:47,588
IS FAILURE
TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY.

243
00:17:47,718 --> 00:17:50,504
AND WHEN SOMEONE'S
FACING IMMINENT DEATH,

244
00:17:50,634 --> 00:17:52,027
IT'S COMMON TO WANT
TO DO THAT.

245
00:17:52,158 --> 00:17:54,290
AS ONE NOT GO TO YOUR GRAVE,
SO TO SPEAK,

246
00:17:54,421 --> 00:17:56,510
FEELING GUILTY
ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

247
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:02,037
♪♪

248
00:18:02,168 --> 00:18:07,782
♪♪

249
00:18:07,912 --> 00:18:11,481
WHILE I WAS SITTING IN COUNTY
AWAITING MY TRIAL,

250
00:18:11,612 --> 00:18:13,657
I ACTUALLY PICKED UP THE BIBLE
FOR THE FIRST TIME

251
00:18:13,788 --> 00:18:18,314
AND ACTUALLY READ IT FOR MYSELF
TO SEE WHAT IT SAID.

252
00:18:18,445 --> 00:18:22,057
AND WITHIN A COUPLE OF HOURS,
I'M DOWN ON MY KNEES PRAYING

253
00:18:22,188 --> 00:18:26,409
AND ASKING GOD FOR FORGIVENESS
AND TAKE -- TAKE ME BACK.

254
00:18:29,543 --> 00:18:32,415
IF HE WAS TO LET ME OUT TODAY,

255
00:18:32,546 --> 00:18:35,984
I WOULDN'T GET SO MUCH AS A FINE
FOR JAYWALKING OR LITTERING.

256
00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:38,987
I'D BE A MODEL CITIZEN.

257
00:18:39,118 --> 00:18:41,337
THEY'RE TRYING TO BE CHARMING
AND SUPERFICIAL,

258
00:18:41,468 --> 00:18:42,773
AND THEY'LL SAY,
"YES, I'VE LEARNED.

259
00:18:42,904 --> 00:18:44,906
I'VE CHANGED MY WAYS.
I'VE BEEN A MODEL PRISONER.

260
00:18:45,036 --> 00:18:47,213
I'M SAFE TO GO OUT."

261
00:18:47,343 --> 00:18:48,997
SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY
THEY CAN CHANGE.

262
00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:52,392
IN MY EXPERIENCE,
I DON'T THINK THEY DO.

263
00:18:55,656 --> 00:18:58,963
Hummel:
IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME.

264
00:18:59,094 --> 00:19:00,356
IT DOESN'T MATTER
WHAT MAN THINKS OF ME,

265
00:19:00,487 --> 00:19:03,142
IT ONLY MATTERS
WHAT GOD THINKS OF ME.

266
00:19:03,272 --> 00:19:05,448
GOD'S FORGIVEN ME
AND FORGOTTEN IT,

267
00:19:05,579 --> 00:19:08,538
SO THAT'S ALL
THAT REALLY MATTERS.

268
00:19:08,669 --> 00:19:11,802
Raghavan: HE'S JUST OVERLAID
ONE FANTASY WITH ANOTHER.

269
00:19:11,933 --> 00:19:17,025
HE HAS NOT REALLY
TAKEN ACCOUNTABILITY.

270
00:19:17,156 --> 00:19:19,419
HE'S STILL NOT ABLE TO FACE
WHAT HE DID,

271
00:19:19,549 --> 00:19:22,639
AND BY DENYING
AND REPRESSING THE MEMORIES,

272
00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:26,034
HE DOESN'T HAVE TO FACE
THE HORROR OF HIS ACTIONS.

273
00:19:26,165 --> 00:19:28,863
HE'S REPLACED HIS GUILT
AND SHAME

274
00:19:28,993 --> 00:19:31,953
WITH SORT OF THIS
INSTANT FORGIVENESS BY JESUS.

275
00:19:34,347 --> 00:19:37,001
Hummel: THE SECOND POEM
THAT I PLAN ON SAYING

276
00:19:37,132 --> 00:19:40,831
DURING MY LAST WORDS
IS A KIND OF A PARODY

277
00:19:40,962 --> 00:19:43,747
OF THE "NOW I LAY ME
DOWN TO SLEEP"

278
00:19:43,878 --> 00:19:46,185
THAT THEY TEACH CHILDREN.

279
00:20:00,764 --> 00:20:06,117
♪♪

280
00:20:15,388 --> 00:20:22,656
♪♪

281
00:20:22,786 --> 00:20:30,316
♪♪

282
00:20:30,446 --> 00:20:31,621
A TEXAS DEATH-ROW INMATE

283
00:20:31,752 --> 00:20:34,407
HAS BEEN GIVEN
A 60-DAY EXECUTION STAY

284
00:20:34,537 --> 00:20:36,060
BECAUSE OF THE CORONAVIRUS.

285
00:20:36,191 --> 00:20:37,888
JOHN WILLIAM HUMMEL

286
00:20:38,019 --> 00:20:40,195
WAS SCHEDULED TO RECEIVE
A LETHAL INJECTION TOMORROW

287
00:20:40,326 --> 00:20:42,458
AFTER A TEXAS COURT
OF CRIMINAL APPEALS

288
00:20:42,589 --> 00:20:45,026
HAD REJECTED ALL OF HIS GROUNDS
FOR APPEALS YESTERDAY.

289
00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:47,811
HOWEVER, THEY DID AGREE
TO POSTPONE THE EXECUTION

290
00:20:47,942 --> 00:20:49,944
BECAUSE OF THE RESOURCES
REQUIRED.

291
00:20:50,074 --> 00:20:59,432
♪♪